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Post by mclucky on Dec 14, 2009 5:20:37 GMT -5
Weird tournament - lost most of it in the early levels then just a shove grind for about 2 hours to last few tables. Not sure about my exit hand shove - think a mistake but be interested in anyone's thoughts. Hey ho. And thanks for the rail eemil www.pokerxfactor.com/HA207799/1004_20091214_051850/1004
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Post by Goozfraba77 on Dec 14, 2009 6:30:31 GMT -5
Hi McLucky,
Who am i to tell if you're right or wrong... but here's my 2 cents.
I haven't seen all the hands of the tournament, only went to the last hand and put the data into the PushBot Rev 2.0.xls file so i have no reads on hand ranges... so i tried with all the ranges and the 77 shove is -cEV so i guess you've made a mistake, maybe you were tired and didn't evaluate properly the situation, maybe you had a read that justified the move, but anyway you have another excellent final result. Congratulations McLucky... keep the good pace.
c ya.
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eemil
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by eemil on Dec 14, 2009 6:44:35 GMT -5
McLucky did it again, you went deep!!
I joined the rail from hand apr. 200 and and watched the HH from the start.
Overall very well played. I have comments or questions on the following hands.
Hand 50: what was the reason to limp/call A5s? Induce a shove and take any change to double. Hand 131: What tells you that you are flipping? Hand 168: Was this shove purely player dependent? Hand 237: I liked a lot how you played this one. Villains mini lead on the flop needs to be verified which you did and act accordingly. Hand 242: I think that pre shove would have been a right play here due to your stack size. Only way this 3bet is working if villain is due not pay attention enough. I think this signals your hand strength. Hand 251: Viet tendency not to let go flops is the reason why I would have check the flop but it is tough spot not to cbet. Hand 253: Could be a mistake but still not bad play. WP.
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Post by mclucky on Dec 14, 2009 9:05:09 GMT -5
Hand 50: what was the reason to limp/call A5s? Induce a shove and take any change to double.
LOL the limp was a misclick. I wish I could say it was a well thought out plan to induce but no - misclicked then too short to fold.
Hand 131: What tells you that you are flipping? This was interesting. I have 23 bbs and can def raise fold here comfortably. My plan was to call the BB shove and fold to a standard 3bet or shove from AKA. But then he makes a strange oversized 3 bet - which I read as a sign of a weaker / vulenerable hand that wanted to appear committed when actually not. He left himself 20bbs and I just thought this fact and the oversized 3bet might mean I had some fold equity. That coupled with the dead money in the pot and I'm happy to flip here. I actually checked his stats here and think he's good enough to be doing this pretty wide.
Hand 168: Was this shove purely player dependent?
No but that was a major factor. I had been battling with this guy for a long time. I knew he was good and he folded every time to my 3bet shoves but he wasn't letting up. I had a tight - fairly nitty image and I knew he saw my BB as a good steal spot. I have less than 20 bbs here and I therefore can't 3bet fold and flatting is just too spewey. Seemed like a good spot to pick up chips and my hand plays well all in against his range.
Hand 237: I liked a lot how you played this one. Villains mini lead on the flop needs to be verified which you did and act accordingly.
Yeah I just wasn't prepared to get it in with this hand and this guys had been doing a lot of min raise folding and donk bet folding too. Pretty sure I'm behind here & no need for heroics with over 22bbs left behind.
Hand 242: I think that pre shove would have been a right play here due to your stack size. Only way this 3bet is working if villain is due not pay attention enough. I think this signals your hand strength. Agree and would never normally do this but rexar seemed to be happy to see a flop for additional chips once he'd shown some interest in a hand. I really wanted action here from him. 90% of time though i shove as you say.
Hand 251: Viet tendency not to let go flops is the reason why I would have check the flop but it is tough spot not to cbet. Hmm. Really not sure about this one. He knows I can't continue without a very small range - maybe I just got outplayed. I think I'll post this one on one of the other forums and see what comes back.
Hand 253: Could be a mistake but still not bad play. WP.
Seems like a lot of chips to get in pf but I'm not deep enough to flat or 3bet fold so I thought shove was best. He's a losing player so maybe I have more fold equity than normal and also maybe he can fold 88 or medium aces as he's been super nitty at the FT. Again really not sure about this one.
Appreciate the feedback ....GG
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Post by lucidaxiom on Dec 22, 2009 23:17:20 GMT -5
I though hand 50 was a mis-click, too funny. Nice solid play. I think this HH is a good demonstration of stack awareness and fold equity. Also many good examples of re-steals. Additionally, I could see a clear feel for and ability to exploit your table image. Most pots you took down uncontested.
Conrats!
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huge
Full Member
Posts: 109
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Post by huge on Dec 26, 2009 15:49:01 GMT -5
Some thoughts...
29: I think I’d mildly prefer checking that flop (and calling anything less than pot-sized). There are so many hands that call or raise you, so you don’t have much bluff value, and pretty often you’ll just get a free card anyway, in which case you can decide whether to bluff the turn.
50: LOL at the misclick. Once he shoves I’m not sure you’re right to call. You need better than 40% equity against his range just to be chipEV neutral on the call, and for that to be true he’s got to be shoving 20% or more. Throw in ICM and the fact that you’ve got a pretty efficient open-shove stack, and the fact that you’re better than the other players (if you can keep your misclicks under control), and I think you need like 45% equity to make a call even marginal. For that you’d need him to be shoving 30% - hands like A5o, Q9o etc, and I doubt he’s shoving over a limper that wide.
58: I probably make this shove most of the time too, but I wonder if a standard raise to isolate the limper isn’t better. If he’s limping with a monster you get mostly the same result with a smaller raise, except that you might be able to get away from the hand if someone else reraises. If he’s limping with a very weak hand you get the same result. It’s that whole middle range where he limp-calls where I think you’re better off playing a flop with AQ in position against possibly a weak player with very likely a hand like AJ or ATs. I think by shoving you get him calling with hands that crush you and folding a lot of hands that you dominate.
84: Ballsy against a player in early-mid position. Is this standard for you in that spot or did you have a read on the raiser? I think I would normally just fold there, but looking at the stacks I wonder if a stop-n-go might be effective – if he has a better Ace and he misses the flop you’ll likely get him to fold a better hand that he would have called your shove with.
86: I think calling on the button with A2s would be OK, but folding’s fine too.
91: Ooh, discipline! I’m getting pretty good about folding AT in EP, but I still donk off with AJ much of the time. Good fold with the monster stack in the BB.
93: Your shove is probably +EV, but I wonder if you wouldn’t be better off just completing and trying to see a flop. My normal play there would be to complete and then min bet almost any flop (but you knew that already lol).
122: I want to question this hand but I’m not sure why … obv KQ is good enough to shove with your stack and antes in play, and you’re certainly not folding it. I guess I’m worried that because you shoved on the same guy in the BB a few orbits ago that he’ll call pretty wide, possibly including any Ace. I would probably just complete here, but largely that’s because I complete with so many weak hands that to do it with a pretty good hand helps to balance my range and I get some good deception value if I flop top pair and the BB hits second pair (or obviously top pair and a worse kicker). I think KQ plays quite well post-flop out of position here – good chance of coolering the BB or inducing bluffs, and you won’t get in too much trouble if you miss.
125: This seems risky – you’re turning a decent hand into a bluff. Standard raise is probably bad because you’re getting low on 3-bet-fold-equity. I wouldn’t mind a limp here, or just folding.
131: Depending on the opponent here I might just raise-fold with 55. His non-shove 3-bet looks scary, and your stack is pretty good for raise-folding. I think you’re in moderately bad shape against his range here. But you may have had info on him… Nice result anyway. [after writing that I read your reply to Eemil – makes sense that you’re putting him on a pretty wide range. I seriously doubt you have much fold equity, but I guess it’s possible]
[WTF is wrong with the world??? I’m advising someone to be *LESS* aggressive???]
139: Nice overbet-shove I think … at first I questioned it, but there are almost no turn cards that won’t make you queasy. Might as well get the chips in when you’re pretty sure you’re ahead and not give him the opportunity to checkraise-semibluff.
OK I’m going to stop here and come back to the 2nd half later. Congrats on a great run… (I like the shove on the last hand, btw – I don’t know what else you’re supposed to with 77 in that spot, and some players will fold 88 or 99 to that shove with those stacks)
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huge
Full Member
Posts: 109
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Post by huge on Dec 27, 2009 3:32:02 GMT -5
OK here's the second half...
163: I might think about either limping here or raising if the limper limps a lot. Folding’s fine, but I hate to give up my button with a decent suited hand.
168: I’m guessing you had some sort of read on the raiser – at least that he wasn’t tight.
171: I might go ahead and open here … oh I don’t know … with just a few more chips I’d feel more like opening … maybe folding is the right choice. Certainly if the blinds have been tight I would open.
183: I realize it’s an ugly stack size but I think I like a raise here 5-handed. The limper can’t be all that happy about his hand.
186: Could squeeze here but it would depend on your read on the other players and your table image.
230: Again I probably just complete here but your raise is fine, especially if you know the BB is playing timidly.
231: I would open here.
237: What a weird hand. I don’t know if I play it any differently – maybe just flat the flop and hope to get to showdown cheaply. His min-CB looks weak on the flop, but your raise looks pretty weak too. When you make that small raise it’s pretty clear that you don’t have a good made hand – think about how much more you would raise with AK or KQ there to protect against the flush draw. And he knows you don’t have the flush draw yourself because you probably would have taken the near-free card. But you don’t know whether he has a flush draw, big made hand, or air. Yeah I think either limping along or raising stronger would be better choices.
238: Shoving’s fine, but you probably can accomplish the same thing by raising to 6600 or something.
250: A 4-bet preflop would put a *LOT* of pressure on the button to fold. He’s passed up two opportunities to raise, and your initial min-raise should look very scary to him – it looks like you purposely raised so that the short-stack could reopen the betting.
251: I might throw out a slightly bigger C-bet here, to sell the idea that you’re trying to protect a good hand against a flush draw.
253: As I said in the last post – I like the shove here. I guess you could stop-and-go – that actually feels like a decent alternative, but I’m never folding here.
Great game. I know I put up a lot of comments on hands, but most of them are just “here’s another line you might consider” – very few are serious disagreements.
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