Post by Steve on Nov 7, 2010 21:00:37 GMT -5
One request that came up numerous times in the "What do you want to see?" thread was late position opening ranges. I think since so many of our raises come from late position this would certainly make a worthwhile topic.
First of all, let's define late position. For the purposes of discussion, we’ll talk about the button, cut off, and hijack positions. There’s certainly a difference between the button and hijack positions, but for the most part we’ll group them together.
The first thing to understand about late position raises is that the size of the stacks behind you are nearly as important as your stack. So when evaluating the quality of spots for opening in late position, you need to be highly aware of which players and what stacks are behind you.
First, let’s talk about situations assuming that all stacks behind are equal. I’ll give examples assuming you’re the CO, since it splits the middle of late position. Also, let’s assume there are antes in play, which give more incentive for aggressive LP play. Without antes you can simply drop out the bottom few hands of these ranges.
50 BB’s or more: At these effective stacks you can open a full range of hands. Depending on how aggressive the players are behind you, I’d say you can open the following: 22+, A2s+, A7o+ (you can go lower, depending on villains), 54s+, JTo+, KTo+, QTo+, 75s+ (two gappers), T7s+(three gappers.) If the villains on your left are quite tight, you can go considerably wider than this even, raising off suit connectors and suited two gappers. Depending on how comfortable you are playing post flop with some marginal holdings, you can certainly drop out some of these hands, especially the gapped holdings or weak off suit hands.
~40 BB’s: You can open a pretty similar range however there’s an added factor to be aware of here, good players will flat call a wider range here than at 50 BB’s. For example, if you raise the CO with 50 BB’s (effective) or more and the SB holds AJ/AQ, they may often 3 bet; however with 40 BB’s they will more likely flat call (the good/stack size aware ones anyway) since 3 betting at these stacks creates an awkward pot size in relation to stacks post flop. Example, you raise 2.6X on the CO, SB 3 bets to 9X, BB folds, you call. Now there’s ~20 BB’s in the pot with ~30 behind in stacks. It’s a pot a bit small for open shoving, and a bit big for bet/folding. Many players (especially at low stakes) will still 3 bet that range though, unaware of this multi-street consequence. Outside this factor, the opening range for 40 BB’s should be pretty similar to 50, of course still depending on how aggressive the players on your left are.
~30 BB’s: Here’s where we need to start making some changes. The 30 BB stack is around the area players will start restealing all in (even though you know it’s an overbet, they don’t) as well as go and go’ing you. Against players who are aggressive you should consider tightening your range here, especially since some of the connector/weak suited hands will play a little worse post and players who flat call in the blinds will have an easier time check raising all in on the flop. Although it’s not completely strict, I likely raise things like: 22+, A2s+, A9o+, 67s+, QJo+, KTo+, QTs+. Depending who’s on your left that range can be a bit tight or a bit loose, and you’re certainly paralyzed at 30 BB’s with your range.
14-22 BB’s: At this stack I’m tightening my opening range considerably. Having 23 BB’s+ can be a pretty similar range to 30, but under that you really need to be conscious of the fact that you’ll get re-stolen AI at a much higher frequency than any other stack. It’s additionally bad because when this happens it’s a fairly significant portion of your stack that you lose when you get reraised. Of additional difficulty for the higher end of this stack is that many players will have a very easy check raise all in on the flop, and it’ll often be just enough to price out your weaker holdings. If you raise 2.5X pre on the CO with 20BB effective and the BB calls there’s about ~7 BB’s in the pot, leaving 17.5 BB’s behind. When he checks and you perhaps fire ~4 BB’s and he moves in, you can’t easily call off 100% of your range. This is also the kind of stack size where if you do raise and get called, you should consider checking back more flops with dangerous or draw heavy textures. At this stack, depending on whose on my left, I’m mostly only raising hands I want to get all in with. That means, roughly, 66+, ATo+, A9s+, KQs (debatable.)
13 BB’s and less: At this point most of your late position opens (with antes) will be shoves. In a field of unknowns the only hands you should be raising nominally with are the hands you really want action on, but in tournaments like the 100r you should shove 100% of your range since most players know nobody raise/folds 12 BB’s in late position in that tournament any more.
Now let’s talk about how the players on your left affect your ranges. There will be some players who are so tight and resteal incapable that you should debateably be opening any two cards in LP, depending on your position. This can also apply to players who massively tighten up in bubble situations. However, in some spots you should still consider folding the bottom ~20% of your range, as if you constantly bombard these players with raises they will almost certainly adjust and start spite calling/ 3 betting you. Nobody likes to feel like they are being bullied. With very loose/resteal happy players you of course need to tighten your open raising range but loosen the range with which you call their shoves with.
With players of the very tight/very aggro variety, you’re raise should almost always have a plan going into the action. You should know how tight you’re willing to fold if a nit comes over the top, and how loose you’re going to call when the spewtard does. Don’t raise 55 on the CO with a spewtard in the SB with 16 BB’s then talk yourself out of a call. Running the ranges through pokerstove (you’ll always have to estimate, which is harder with the spewtards) should give you a rough idea of how loose to get with your raise/calls.
I need to emphasize again, it’s mostly effective stacks that matter. If you have 40 BB’s on the CO, and all three players behind you have 13-20 BB’s, you should treat your opening range like you have 13-20 BB’s unless they are all huge nits. Most of the time things won’t line up this easy for you, so you need to watch the players on your left closely to see what they are capable of pre flop with these kinds of stacks and how recently their stack has changed. Players who just lost a major pot down to 15 BB’s are way more likely to resteal than players who waited to shove 7 BB’s and just now doubled up.
The ranges I’ve given aren’t terribly strict, some players will feel comfortable going looser and some tighter, depending on the villains skill and your own skill. Also bear in mind the metagame, if you’ve raised the last two buttons you should probably be tightening up on the third. If you’ve folded the last two, you can raise a looser range obviously. These aren’t hard and fast rules, but I hope they serve well as guide lines.
Alright, that’s all for now, as always if you’ve got questions, just ask, I’ll be awake in ~9 hours.
First of all, let's define late position. For the purposes of discussion, we’ll talk about the button, cut off, and hijack positions. There’s certainly a difference between the button and hijack positions, but for the most part we’ll group them together.
The first thing to understand about late position raises is that the size of the stacks behind you are nearly as important as your stack. So when evaluating the quality of spots for opening in late position, you need to be highly aware of which players and what stacks are behind you.
First, let’s talk about situations assuming that all stacks behind are equal. I’ll give examples assuming you’re the CO, since it splits the middle of late position. Also, let’s assume there are antes in play, which give more incentive for aggressive LP play. Without antes you can simply drop out the bottom few hands of these ranges.
50 BB’s or more: At these effective stacks you can open a full range of hands. Depending on how aggressive the players are behind you, I’d say you can open the following: 22+, A2s+, A7o+ (you can go lower, depending on villains), 54s+, JTo+, KTo+, QTo+, 75s+ (two gappers), T7s+(three gappers.) If the villains on your left are quite tight, you can go considerably wider than this even, raising off suit connectors and suited two gappers. Depending on how comfortable you are playing post flop with some marginal holdings, you can certainly drop out some of these hands, especially the gapped holdings or weak off suit hands.
~40 BB’s: You can open a pretty similar range however there’s an added factor to be aware of here, good players will flat call a wider range here than at 50 BB’s. For example, if you raise the CO with 50 BB’s (effective) or more and the SB holds AJ/AQ, they may often 3 bet; however with 40 BB’s they will more likely flat call (the good/stack size aware ones anyway) since 3 betting at these stacks creates an awkward pot size in relation to stacks post flop. Example, you raise 2.6X on the CO, SB 3 bets to 9X, BB folds, you call. Now there’s ~20 BB’s in the pot with ~30 behind in stacks. It’s a pot a bit small for open shoving, and a bit big for bet/folding. Many players (especially at low stakes) will still 3 bet that range though, unaware of this multi-street consequence. Outside this factor, the opening range for 40 BB’s should be pretty similar to 50, of course still depending on how aggressive the players on your left are.
~30 BB’s: Here’s where we need to start making some changes. The 30 BB stack is around the area players will start restealing all in (even though you know it’s an overbet, they don’t) as well as go and go’ing you. Against players who are aggressive you should consider tightening your range here, especially since some of the connector/weak suited hands will play a little worse post and players who flat call in the blinds will have an easier time check raising all in on the flop. Although it’s not completely strict, I likely raise things like: 22+, A2s+, A9o+, 67s+, QJo+, KTo+, QTs+. Depending who’s on your left that range can be a bit tight or a bit loose, and you’re certainly paralyzed at 30 BB’s with your range.
14-22 BB’s: At this stack I’m tightening my opening range considerably. Having 23 BB’s+ can be a pretty similar range to 30, but under that you really need to be conscious of the fact that you’ll get re-stolen AI at a much higher frequency than any other stack. It’s additionally bad because when this happens it’s a fairly significant portion of your stack that you lose when you get reraised. Of additional difficulty for the higher end of this stack is that many players will have a very easy check raise all in on the flop, and it’ll often be just enough to price out your weaker holdings. If you raise 2.5X pre on the CO with 20BB effective and the BB calls there’s about ~7 BB’s in the pot, leaving 17.5 BB’s behind. When he checks and you perhaps fire ~4 BB’s and he moves in, you can’t easily call off 100% of your range. This is also the kind of stack size where if you do raise and get called, you should consider checking back more flops with dangerous or draw heavy textures. At this stack, depending on whose on my left, I’m mostly only raising hands I want to get all in with. That means, roughly, 66+, ATo+, A9s+, KQs (debatable.)
13 BB’s and less: At this point most of your late position opens (with antes) will be shoves. In a field of unknowns the only hands you should be raising nominally with are the hands you really want action on, but in tournaments like the 100r you should shove 100% of your range since most players know nobody raise/folds 12 BB’s in late position in that tournament any more.
Now let’s talk about how the players on your left affect your ranges. There will be some players who are so tight and resteal incapable that you should debateably be opening any two cards in LP, depending on your position. This can also apply to players who massively tighten up in bubble situations. However, in some spots you should still consider folding the bottom ~20% of your range, as if you constantly bombard these players with raises they will almost certainly adjust and start spite calling/ 3 betting you. Nobody likes to feel like they are being bullied. With very loose/resteal happy players you of course need to tighten your open raising range but loosen the range with which you call their shoves with.
With players of the very tight/very aggro variety, you’re raise should almost always have a plan going into the action. You should know how tight you’re willing to fold if a nit comes over the top, and how loose you’re going to call when the spewtard does. Don’t raise 55 on the CO with a spewtard in the SB with 16 BB’s then talk yourself out of a call. Running the ranges through pokerstove (you’ll always have to estimate, which is harder with the spewtards) should give you a rough idea of how loose to get with your raise/calls.
I need to emphasize again, it’s mostly effective stacks that matter. If you have 40 BB’s on the CO, and all three players behind you have 13-20 BB’s, you should treat your opening range like you have 13-20 BB’s unless they are all huge nits. Most of the time things won’t line up this easy for you, so you need to watch the players on your left closely to see what they are capable of pre flop with these kinds of stacks and how recently their stack has changed. Players who just lost a major pot down to 15 BB’s are way more likely to resteal than players who waited to shove 7 BB’s and just now doubled up.
The ranges I’ve given aren’t terribly strict, some players will feel comfortable going looser and some tighter, depending on the villains skill and your own skill. Also bear in mind the metagame, if you’ve raised the last two buttons you should probably be tightening up on the third. If you’ve folded the last two, you can raise a looser range obviously. These aren’t hard and fast rules, but I hope they serve well as guide lines.
Alright, that’s all for now, as always if you’ve got questions, just ask, I’ll be awake in ~9 hours.